In January of 2015, Moog Music announced they will produce a limited quantity of modular systems that are faithful recreations of the original. Here are my thoughts for those interested in the synthesizer world and those considering a purchase. I'll do the best I can to offer a fair assessment. Your input is welcome.
- Roger Arrick
Visit Moog Music's web site.
My history begins with Switched-on-Bach and Bob Moog in the late 60s. Most had heroes like Batman and Roger Staubach, but my hero was Bob. As a kid, I was fascinated by these giant machines and the wonderful sounds a skilled operator could make with them. The cool part was being able to build your own instrument by adding modules wherever you wanted, and building sound from the ground up. It wasn't just the patch-ability, modularity was a big part of it. Delightfully nerdy during a time way before nerdism was cool. No other product that I knew of except LEGO and Erector gave me this freedom and possibility.
The big problem was, these machines were out of reach for me, a mere mortal, due to their cost, as much as a fancy car or even a small house. I never was able to even see a Moog modular in person. They were owned by rich artists and large universities.
I never stopped longing for a modular synthesizer, even through adulthood. In the 90's, even though my career was in electronics manufacturing but not in the music industry, I sat out to build and offer a modular synthesizer as a product. That's a long journey with lots of details, but in a nutshell, my goal was to solve the age-old problem of accessibility to modular synthesizers by getting the price point right. I knew there was a chance I was the only one in the world who wanted this, but I later learned there were many of us. In 1999, after 3 years of work, the very first production batches were ready.
I looked long and hard at reproducing exact replicas of the Moog Modular system. It seemed logical. Why not, it's what I always wanted. But then reality sat in. After careful study I learned some unsettling things. The Moog systems used switch-triggers to fire envelope generators. These switch triggers had unusual connectors that couldn't be patched along with other signals.
Another thing that bothered me even as a kid was the half-sized modules. Look closely at a Moog modular and you'll see them across the bottom. I loved the idea of modularity but those half-sized modules couldn't be moved to other locations. And some of them were hard wired to special connectors in the back and to other modules. The more I thought about it, the more I realized this had to be resolved.
Digging into the circuits I found some surprising things. I'd heard stories that Bob designed some of the modules using obsolete transistors he bought at an auction for a good price. Some modules used obscure chips that hadn't been made in 25 years and could never be replaced. Maintainability was very important to my thinking. That had to be right.
And I started reading stories about users constantly battling tuning issues. These are things I didn't. They worried me. A user shouldn't have to fight that.
Then there was the power system - it's an asymmetrical setup with +12 volts and -6 volts. This reduces headroom and makes from some other awkward design compromises. On top of that, it used an unnecessarily bulky card edge power connector.
There are a few more things and you can read about the differences between a Synthesizers.com modular and a Moog modular on the comparison page. Suffice to say, I had to rethink my plan and decide whether to create perfect copies, or build a next generation modular, keeping the good stuff and improving on the old. Some things I love about the Moog are the panel sizes and the special dual-dotted knobs, those things I kept, no question, but switch triggers had to go, the power supply had to be made better, parts had to be accessible, and the tuning issue had to be fixed. The sound - it had to be there too.
More than all that, it had to be affordable or what's the point? Who cares if I build a great system that nobody can have? This is where my regular day-job came in handy. Building electronics for decades gave me the tools and insight to create something that worked, sounded right, was build-able, and could be made at a reasonable price.
Here I am 15 years later, living right in the middle of this era of modular synth rebirth. I really had no idea but just let the wave carry me along. Happily, I found thousands with the same passion, and so many young people - it makes me smile. This whole thing has surprised me and blessed me beyond measure. Cup runneth over bla bla bla.
But this modular firestorm has been burning since the 90s. I figured Moog would jump on for the ride but they hadn't, until now. At first, everyone was in shock, my customers, me, and my employees. What's going to happen? After a flood of postings on our facebook group and forums all over Synthesizerdom, I took the advice of many synth market watchers and realized that Moog's entry is basically good for everyone, even Synthesizers.com. It's a perfectly natural and logical thing, even if temporary. It's confirmation for all of us. And indeed, I've been contacted by many new customers and even sold some systems to those who have been inspired by the Moog announcement. This is good.
I'm not sure how relevent this really is, but this whole thing reminds me a lot of the personal computer market around 1982. Then, PCs were popular but people were unsure. It wasn't until the IBM PC was introduced that people became confident and jumped on the bandwagon. Really, it helped everyone, the customers AND the builders.
So, the next question is, should you buy a Moog Modular or buy a Synthesizers.com or some other modular. This question is for you to decide. I'm fully willing to let my customers, my reputation, my machines, and the market decide, I always have been. I've learned that if I pay attention to making good products, to keep stock, to respond to customers and do the right thing, then everything just works. If you're looking for an answer, you will find it. All I ask is that you consider everything - functionality, sound, affordability, maintainability, customer service, etc. Browse the forums, ask users, make your choice. Whatever you decide, that's fine with me, I salute you.
When Moog's announcement first happened, I posted it on the Synthesizers.com facebook forum to get opinions. This posting got more responses than even those on the Moog forum. Here it is, unedited.
Marc Doty Get ready, Roger. I think you're going to be hearing "why not just buy a more powerful Synthesizers.com system for that kind of price?" a lot. January 19 at 10:51am - Like - 29 Mark A. Sykes My initial thought is I can get the below for about $26,000 less: January 19 at 10:51am - Like - 11 Roger Arrick In my FAQ, there is an explanation of the differences between a Synthesizers.com system and the Moog modular. It's the 2nd question in the PRODUCT QUESTIONS category https://www.synthesizers.com/faq.html January 19 at 10:51am - Like - 7 - Remove Preview Mark A. Sykes My second thought is Moog might consider licensing some modules through Synthesizers.com. You could make an excellent authorized product, and both companies would benefit. January 19 at 10:52am - Like - 2 Dana Countryman Just left a note on the Muffwigglers FB page. I agree with Guido, who says that only folks rich enough will go this route. It's cool that Moog is doing this, but synthesizers.com and a lot of other synth makers are way ahead of the curve. This is not going to impact small manufacturers in any major way, IMHO. I'll put that $35,000 into retirement. I already have a world class synth. January 19 at 10:54am - Edited - Like - 14 Jacopo Monegato interesting. From a (trustworthy) source most of them were already sold before the announcement. The only thing i'm thinking about is: what about your moog clones (sequencer, right?) and other clone makers, like moon modular? Will you be allowed to produce them now that moog is reissuing the modules? January 19 at 10:55am - Like Dana Countryman Ah, Roger's more clever than that... I happen to know that he designed completely new circuits, and probably IMPROVED on the original Moog designs... January 19 at 10:57am - Like - 8 Robin Benjamins I just saw this and ran over to Moog's website and was quite happy to see it. But two things popped out: 1) they appear to be faithful reproductions of the 60's originals, which might replicate some of the undesirable aspects, and 2) they are a bit pricy. But very glad to see Moog coming back to its roots. It should help boost interest in Synthesizers.com modulars. synthesizers.com|By Roger Arrick January 19 at 2:10pm - Edited - Like - 5 - Remove Preview I am Orami I am happy January 19 at 10:59am - Like Glenn Lawhon Me too but I would order a dotcom instead..... January 19 at 11:00am - Like - 1 Adrien Duchemole why are they so expensive ? it's complete madness honestly, what's the point buying at such a price these instruments when you can have same sound and great quality building by buying Mos Lab systems ?? January 19 at 11:05am - Like - 2 Calle Olsson Too few, too expensive. January 19 at 11:17am - Like - 2 Joe Ponce Awesome! January 19 at 11:17am - Like Federico S�nchez I hope they sell individual modules to mix them up with my DotCom. January 19 at 11:18am - Like - 2 Airyc Creiner Better prices than what Modusonics was aasking for (14k for system 15; 35 for sys 35, 55 for sys 55). Roger, I think it is more appropriate to ask what are YOUR thoughts haha January 19 at 11:18am - Like - 2 Dustin Sedlacek They will all be picked up. The moog sound is solid and works well in top end studio settings. January 19 at 11:20am - Like Lutz Bojasch This is not a option for me, to expensive, much to expensive. I'm doing reputable work and we all know, what this means January 19 at 11:21am - Like - 2 Barrie Damarell I'm completely happy with my studio 66 and not in a million years could either afford or justify the purchase of a Moog modular. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. January 19 at 11:23am - Like - 1 Ritchie DeCarlo I have been in music retail for the past 15 years. The people who buy $10,000.00 guitars do not play them. This MOOG Modular will be selling to that same guy...... Unfortunately. January 19 at 11:24am - Like - 5 Nicolas Guichard Today moog makes only synths that have failures repeatedly, poorly designed, and overpriced. personally, I had the minitaur, the slim phatty, the voyager and the subphatty, and I've quickly all resold as soon as I had my portable 44 synthesizers.com. now I am happy and I say: thanks Roger Arrick January 19 at 11:24am - Like - 5 Mikel Zwissler I think it's pretty awesome, personally. I'd bet most of those sales went to folks that already have impressive MU systems. I don't think this scales to $10k guitars. It's only about 4x the price of similar MU rigs. I'd say this is like "custom shop" $2-$3k guitars. Not going to be anything but good for synthesizers.com. January 19 at 11:27am - Like Jester Glass I was really hoping for something marketed toward mortals. January 19 at 11:27am - Like Gabriele Gasparotti my choice will be synthesizers.com January 19 at 11:27am - Like Craig Skomski I think I can't afford that and no amount of sweet talking the wife is gonna make it happen. January 19 at 11:28am - Like James Simpson These things are a PITA to build for a company like moog, they build them as limited projects for fun. To keep the heritage. There might be a spin off product that is cheaper and more mass marketable down the line but this isn't too bad considering what you get. January 19 at 11:29am - Like James Simpson For the rest of us theres already a TON of great modular options out there. Let's not all be upset because it doesn't have that badge on it. January 19 at 11:29am - Like - 2 AJ Gapsevic Roger Arrick, I don't think Facebook was around when you first designed your company, but with the auto link generated when typing in your company, synthesizers.com , you are getting SOOO much free advertising right now. You might want to hire a few more people to start building modules. January 19 at 11:31am - Like - 4 - Remove Preview Simple Nomad The one positive about this announcement from Moog is that it will help increase a little more awareness for modular systems in the modern world. Other than that it is priced like one would expect from Moog, and I can't see anyone but the richest synth snobs going after it. January 19 at 11:31am - Like Nathan Kampf For that price lol... Get a buchla system 7 = the end January 19 at 11:31am - Like - 2 David Robbins Unless you are concerned with brand name, why would you ever buy a Moog at that price point when Dotcom exists? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns Diminishing returns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In economics, diminishing returns (also called law of... en.wikipedia.org January 19 at 11:32am - Like - 1 - Remove Preview James Simpson Because you are concerned with the brand name January 19 at 11:33am - Like - 1 Airyc Creiner These prices are better than vintage prices it seems. Modulation wise they are primitive, but timbre wise they will sound exceptional. January 19 at 11:33am - Like Justin Hamline Do they have a payment plan? Aspiring artist can't afford that. Only the rich can afford that. Its been my dream to own one of those and thats all it will ever be. Just a dream. January 19 at 11:33am - Like Roger Arrick I expected this 10 years ago. Actually, I figured Moog would buy me out, they could have for the price of a handful of their systems and controlled much of the MU market. Then I could get back to robotics and genealogy and cars and other stuff I do. Meanwhile, I will stand my ground and provide affordable modulars for the masses and the best customer service I can, while the rest party at NAMM I am fully prepared to let the market decide my destiny, always have been. BTW, I have a new catalog about to mail, some new modules in the works and doing video tutorials for each module. All is well in Synthesizerdom January 19 at 11:34am - Like - 50 Dave Cameron I hope Bob Moog is pleased. January 19 at 11:36am - Like - 1 Airyc Creiner Well said, Roger Arrick. I had a modusonics 921a osc driver intending on building up to a system 15, but he went awol in 2009 and my eunuch module sat in my rack for years. I sold it to buy the q119 and i never looked back. I have 35U of dotcom now, and expecting 9U of Moslab on the way. January 19 at 11:37am - Like - 3 Lutz Bojasch by the way: I love my dotcom January 19 at 11:37am - Like - 4 Mark W Roberts ...nope January 19 at 11:38am - Like John McClary Nice they are making them available to oil tycoons and billionaires at the price point they've set. I know they'll sound awesome but damn! January 19 at 11:40am - Like - 2 Michael Firman Yes, I guess if someone really wants a exact replica (in better condition than vintage) System 55 or whatever and is in a situation that price is no object then they can realize their dream. A friend of mine likens this to ancestor worship. Just for those with very rarified tastes IMHO. That said, I'm personally considering one of those new portable 11 cases as an addition to my system. January 19 at 11:41am - Like Jeffrey Hyde Sounds like someone wants Competition is my guess, but so be it then. January 19 at 11:41am - Like Airyc Creiner It's really hard to argue with the build quality and timbre! One famous tech argued that you can dip those etched panels in acid and the lettering will remain. January 19 at 11:44am - Like Michael John Mollo Awesome and expensive January 19 at 11:46am - Like Noti Peppas Noooo strigger is back?! I would have preferred to see them make a new product line personally. Also by not selling individual modules, they have a very small group of people they're appealing to (not me.) January 19 at 11:57am - Like Magnus Glad�n I think Moog Music will start selling these modules separately in the future. They made Voyager signature edition with backlit wheels. Then came the Anniversary Edition with backlit panel and wheels, sold as a limited edition synth� then they started producing Electric Blue and Selected series and so on. January 19 at 11:58am - Like Mikel Zwissler In the grand scheme, even if they did sell individual modules, they'd still have a pretty small group of people they're appealing to. January 19 at 11:59am - Like Airyc Creiner When they do sell individual modules, they will probably be surface mount. January 19 at 11:59am - Like Airyc Creiner I just want the 921 and their inductor based 907a January 19 at 12:00pm - Like Matia Simovich For that kind of money it's absolutely ridiculous unless someone's gonna start handing out 70's style advances. Roger I'll be seeing your systems later this year. January 19 at 12:03pm - Like - 1 James Simpson Except moog don't make a product based on record sales, they make a product based on market demand. January 19 at 12:04pm - Like John Tunnicliffe Hope these new builds stay in tune longer January 19 at 12:06pm - Like - 1 Jeffrey Hyde DAvid Edward Schnell, Moog is more Expensive, and probably out of my league budget wise if anything. January 19 at 12:07pm - Like Matia Simovich Don't moog pride themselves on being connected to the needs of musicians releasing music. Isn't that the whole basis of the moog legacy ... The players choice? January 19 at 12:08pm - Like - 1 Jim Soloman Keep doing what you do Roger - why would anyone in their right mind pay 10k for a model 15 when they could get so much more from you. I love Moog, have been a part of their history, but those prices are outrageous - just like the 100k Emerson model. I was hoping for a poly synth with their big announcement, not overpriced modulars!!! January 19 at 12:13pm - Like - 3 Tom Ainley Didn't the older systems go out of tune a lot? Makes me question if the oscillators will be as stable as .com systems. January 19 at 12:13pm - Like Jeffrey Hyde Oh and a Side Note, Moog are also selling their Keyboard as well with the Controls, but one difference, it is only Duophonic and probably CV Based only, unlike Synthesizers.com's Keyboards that are MIDI Polyphonic Based, and the Price for Moog's Keyboard is about 1/3rd more the Price than the .com one. January 19 at 12:22pm - Like - Remove Preview Jeff Burgener Way to expensive. I'll stick with .com January 19 at 12:24pm - Like - 2 John W F Goode Its a joke at those prices---stay in business Roger, I'll be a continuing customer of yours. January 19 at 12:25pm - Like - 1 Max Henkel It is exciting and I would love to own one. That said 35K would buy a lot of other gear. One of every Euro module ever made! 5 vintage monsters completely refurbished. A studio 110 with 20K to spare! January 19 at 12:38pm - Edited - Like John Kreitzer Zero desire for a Moog modular here. Loyal DotCom fan till the end! Roger, lookin forward to those new modules!! January 19 at 12:26pm - Like - 5 Angelo Metz I'll stick with DOTCOM because it's better. January 19 at 12:27pm - Like - 4 Ruben Dario Peralta Limited so only for a few that can buy !!! It's cool To have but big bucks January 19 at 12:32pm - Like Brian Sherick They will be super expensive.......overpriced. January 19 at 12:34pm - Like - 1 Tom Ainley Its got the Moog name on it. That would be the only reason to buy it. It's just not worth it. There is better options out there, even for rich people. January 19 at 12:34pm - Like - 2 Airyc Creiner I want to clarify one final thing before i bow out of this conversation: My opinions are operating under the assumption that these modulars are NOS, mil spec components, aluminum etched fotofoil (though we know that re:synthesis is making the panels) etc. If these are silk screened panels with alpha pots then I would still prefer the vintage units over the modern ones. January 19 at 12:34pm - Like Michael Huggett I think Roger can rest easy in his bed tonight at those prices January 19 at 12:42pm - Like Bryan Benting I think this move by Moog is a win/win for everyone. I still run into people that don't know modules are still being made. Moog will sell a small number of systems, and synthesizers.com will be selling a bunch more if people dig for affordable alternatives. I for one want to buy an original Moog filter someday, but I have a ton of synthesizers.com modules that are great. Keep up the great work Roger and company! January 19 at 2:12pm - Edited - Like - 3 - Remove Preview Enrico Cosimi with HUGE respect for Moog Music, I am very glad for the modular reissue, but I'll stay with my 110+22 dot com system. Thumbs up for 5U modulars and a double big thumbs up for Roger January 19 at 12:44pm - Like - 5 Mikel Zwissler I don't get how everyone keeps saying those prices are outrageous. Unless I'm missing something, these are entirely hand made. There's no chance I'll be ordering one, but it's kind of like complaining if Ford started hand-building 1968 Ford GTs, and charged $200K for them when you can get a 2015 Mustang GT for like $40k. It's ain't for everybody. Hell, it ain't for most! But it's pretty rad that they're making it. January 19 at 12:58pm - Like - 5 Nils Gibson I just don't see the Moog modules being any better than dotcom. dotcom has been refining and selling their modules for awhile. They have worked the issues out and deliver a great product and excellent customer service. The Moog modules will be expensive and buggy at release, and IMHO their customer service isn't as good. January 19 at 12:58pm - Like - 3 Jason Young If they're anything like the classic modulars, even like yours, I'm all for it! January 19 at 12:58pm - Like Mikel Zwissler I'm hoping they get a lot of visibility. Like I said before, it's not going to be anything but good for MU and Dotcom. Just be happy it's not euro! January 19 at 1:00pm - Like Roger Arrick feelin tha lov January 19 at 1:02pm - Like - 8 Max Henkel I agree with Bryan, this will only bring more attention to the whole scene. It's like some concept car stuff. Not many can or will buy the Moog stuff but all will know about it and want more modular in some variety. It will make for some estate sale finds in 30 years! January 19 at 1:02pm - Like Mike Peake They're expensive...$10K for a system 15, which is a master oscillator, two 921B oscillators, an FFB, a lowpass, etc. Pretty much a Minimoog selection of modules with more features and That Sound (the Moog Modular is more open and large-sounding than the Mini, which is more aggressive and laser-like). That's a big investment...I found that the Moog comes alive when you have two or three lowpasses for complex sound design, so you're in for money. I'm all for them re-releasing it but $$$! January 19 at 1:03pm - Like - 2 Mike Peake Also, I'm hoping that they didn't keep the AC lights next to the DC switching in the CP... January 19 at 1:04pm - Like MaurArte Tubeman Overpriced! January 19 at 1:07pm - Like - 1 Ruben Dario Peralta Let's don't forget that in the 70s high end organs cost over $30 k yea true Also synths like the jp8 or obxa cost over 5k in 81-83 That's a lot of cash back then !!! So prices for me is ok January 19 at 1:07pm - Like Mikel Zwissler Mike- A Voyager XL is $5k. $10k for the Model 15, while expensive, just doesn't seem overpriced for a handmade instrument. January 19 at 1:11pm - Like - 1 Mikel Zwissler Again, too much for me to justify, sure. I don't see anything there that my dotcom rig won't do (and then some!) January 19 at 1:12pm - Like Mike Peake I handmake Buchla 100 modules so I'm aware of the investment in time and resources January 19 at 1:12pm - Like - 2 Mike Peake What I'm saying, is that you'll need to spend a lot of money here to get enough modules to provide for complex sound design. I've owned several Moog Modular systems over the years. Love 'em. Not putting down Moog Music for this Gift. January 19 at 1:13pm - Like - 2 Jeremy Wiss My thoughts . . . I'm going to be orderining more .com modules very soon. January 19 at 1:14pm - Unlike - 2 Matt Avent i heard they're going to limit their oscillators' range to one octave so you need to buy five to play bah bah black sheep January 19 at 1:22pm - Like - 2 Allan Hoeltje Ow! Look at their prices. Let the competition begin and I am glad dotcom has a head start! January 19 at 1:30pm - Like Derrick Simpson I'm a Moog Endorsing Artist and frankly, I'm not impressed nor am I amused by their announcement....When I can afford to, I'll be buying your instrument Roger. January 19 at 1:32pm - Like Rob Wright ...I think I need to change my shorts! January 19 at 1:33pm - Like James Traicoff I think it's amusing that Moog has come out with their version of a Dotcom. January 19 at 1:42pm - Unlike - 7 Roger Arrick Here's one of the first questions: "can I use the Synthesizers.com Q171 Quantizer with my new Moog modular??". The answer is no, the Moog has a different power system/connector. And the Moog uses switch-triggers with special connectors for envelope generators and all those will need to be patched through conversion modules or cables. Have you seen a moog modular power connector? Here it is: https://www.synthesizers.com/.../moog55/moogpower1_1000.jpg January 19 at 1:42pm - Like - 1 Roger Arrick Wow James Traicoff, that just blew my mind January 19 at 1:44pm - Like - 5 Mikel Zwissler Roger, prep yourself. January 19 at 1:45pm - Like - 2 Roger Arrick My website is getting slammed January 19 at 1:45pm - Like - 8 Derrick Simpson Pla dont remind me of Moog's now esoteric ancient choices for triggering......Synth.Com all the way! January 19 at 1:45pm - Like - 3 Mikel Zwissler I see lots of folks asking similar questions, many of which will be answered "Yes" January 19 at 1:45pm - Like - 1 Roger Arrick Please dont abbreviate Synthesizers.com in postings, that usually sends people to the wrong place. January 19 at 1:46pm - Like - 4 Mikel Zwissler You ever regret that name? January 19 at 1:47pm - Like - 1 Mikel Zwissler and congratulations on your website being slammed! January 19 at 1:49pm - Like - 1 Roger Arrick Will you ever forget it? January 19 at 1:53pm - Like - 2 John Williams I will say, the video "Back to the Future Sounds" on their web site of folks old and young talking about modular synthesis in general is very well done. January 19 at 1:55pm - Like - 1 John Williams ....although there are some moments of face-palming when they are gushing about amazing it is that a product like this is "available again." January 19 at 1:57pm - Like Howard D J Howes Well having just completed building my "Midi Room" in Ca, Roger rightly pointed out that it was crying out for a Modular, my choice will still be Synthesizers.com January 19 at 1:59pm - Edited - Like - 1 - Remove Preview Roger Arrick Thank you very much for considering us Howard. January 19 at 1:59pm - Like - 1 Daniel Canada The things that strike me are the cost and the fact that the new Moog modulars can only be bought as complete systems. The synthesizers.com entry system was the only way I was realistically likely to do the modular thing. Aside from being the format I like, the affordability, the fact that you can buy individual modules and dherry pick what you want, and coming out of Xmas, the fact that Roger lets you take a 3 month break. Not to mention the sound and build quality makes this a no brainer. January 19 at 2:00pm - Edited - Like James Traicoff I was being funny, but on reflection, it's the truth. The Moog modular is part of a past that so many of us looked on with envy and longing; you made owning such a device not only possible, but enjoyable, and you did it without the likes of Keith Emerson and Rick Wakeman showcasing your product. The new Moogs are pretty, but there's no real innovation here; they are simply rereleasing a product they abandoned long ago, and they are doing so at collectors prices. That they see such an opportunity is a testament to the modular community that exists, in no small part, because of your efforts. January 19 at 2:00pm - Like - 4 Mikel Zwissler Roger- I read that name many times every day! No way could I forget it January 19 at 2:01pm - Unlike - 1 Howard D J Howes My experiences with the current Moog company have not been great so I will always choose PEOPLE who are pleasant to deal with ! January 19 at 2:02pm - Like - 1 John Nymo Nyman This can only be GOOD for you Roger ! January 19 at 2:11pm - Like - 2 Robin Benjamins Roger, thanks for the clarification on the use of the generic name for Synthesizers.com. Noted and fixed my comment way above in this post. January 19 at 2:14pm - Like - Remove Preview Roger Arrick Group HUG!!! January 19 at 2:17pm - Like - 15 Alex Bush Not affordable, but great that more might look at modular gear now. January 19 at 2:28pm - Like - 2 Kevin Van Vechten If I am very successful someday I may own one January 19 at 2:31pm - Like John Havermans It is good to have Moog back, but . . . . looking at the prices and than compare the current price with the prices back in 1974 ... well find out yourself. http://www.synthfool.com/pricelists/prices74.html Moog 1974 Prices synthfool.com January 19 at 2:40pm - Like - Remove Preview Mikel Zwissler Try buying just about ANYthing for 3x what it cost in 1974... January 19 at 2:57pm - Like - 1 Roger Arrick Price point is a core principle of my business model. My stated goal is to bring the joy and awesomeness of modulars to as many people as possible. That goal has been obtained, and continues. I wanted a Moog modular when I was a kid, but it was the price of my parent's house. January 19 at 2:59pm - Like - 9 Mikel Zwissler Well, you nailed it. I'm still amazed by the price point you've hit. The Q106, IMHO, wins for best all-around bang for buck in modular synthesis. January 19 at 3:01pm - Like - 1 Steffen Gr�ndahl The new Moog Modular is great, but IMO too expensive and thus probably just for collectors. I see no threat to Synthesizers.com. So please just continue your great work Roger (looking forward to new modules) January 19 at 3:03pm - Unlike - 2 Mikel Zwissler I think part of it is that you've totally spoiled us. It's not so much that the Moog is overpriced. It is expensive, yes, but expensive != overpriced. The "problem" is, synthesizers.com (cue another link) is such an amazing value January 19 at 3:03pm - Unlike - 1 John Havermans I had a Moog Modular, for demonstrating in back in 1984. Could buy it for only $2000. Had no money left at that time unfortunately. But 10 k$ for a system 15 . . . . . . no way, my wife would kill me. Better to buy for 2k$ dot.coms, that I would survive. January 19 at 3:04pm - Like - 1 Harry Dibrell I think I'll sell everything I own and get an Emerson Modular. I can keep it in a grocery cart and push it around while pan handling for patch cords. January 19 at 3:10pm - Like - 2 Roger Arrick Speaking of patch cables, wonder why they didn't make the original patch cables. That's the main thing that the user touches. January 19 at 3:14pm - Like - 3 Mikel Zwissler Lol January 19 at 3:19pm - Like Dave Richard Carlton Sticker shock! January 19 at 3:19pm - Like Mike Hunter Honestly, I think it will help raise the awareness of modulars even more... Net effect of positive on you business Roger. January 19 at 3:20pm - Unlike - 6 Mark Vasoll I think Moog made a mistake spending all the time and effort to make new copies of old circuit boards, which require parts which are not available in new manufacturing. As others have said, this is for people to collect. Kudos to them for separating those people from their money, but that's about it. Roger's designs using more modern, but not cutting edge parts are more cost effective and certainly more maintainable. January 19 at 3:21pm - Like - 2 Mike Hunter oh...and I doubt that Moog will have the kind of interaction with its customer base that do you!!!! An immeasurable benefit!!! January 19 at 3:22pm - Unlike - 3 Allen Wentz Please don't raise your prices! January 19 at 3:24pm - Like - 3 Tom Luth I recall when my old school unloaded all their synths back in '82 for a grand total of $2000. I learned of this AFTER the fact Moog models 12, 15 and 55, minimoog and E-mu modular. Hate to think what it would cost to replace all that gear today. Glad there is someone in Texas looking out for us. January 19 at 3:38pm - Like - 1 Jorge Rodriguez Lol January 19 at 3:42pm - Like Mark Vasoll Actually, the high price and low quantity plan sounds like leftovers from their Emerson replica. Circuit board houses have minimum orders. January 19 at 3:42pm - Like Howard D J Howes If it's anything like their previous "Moog" products and software you'll have to return it several times before it works properly and then again to fix what they f:::k up at the factory, sorry did that come out loud ! January 19 at 3:46pm - Like - 3 Geoff Fox My penny's worth. I think Moog are jumping on the bandwagon that been pioneered by the likes of Roger Arrick and other modular manufacturers from the 90's. These people had the guts to bring modulars to the world again when perhaps the future demand wasn't certain. People will buy the new Moog, maybe just to say that they own a Moog. But will they use it? January 19 at 3:47pm - Like - 3 Suit Et Tie Guy I think this is good for us, Roger. January 19 at 4:23pm - Like - 8 Michael Firman I did notice that the price of the keyboard itself wasn't bad but there were no specs yet, so I really can't say whether it's interesting or not. January 19 at 4:28pm - Like Ritchie DeCarlo It is definitely a Great Thing for the community. But I think Moog is missing a Big Market here.... I was at the factory a little over a year ago & they asked my opinion. I told them that if they offered several of their filters ( Original, Sub Phatty, etc....) as modules in MU & EURO they would SELL!!! Their response was that they were worried about providing warranty without knowing what power supply everybody was using..... January 19 at 4:35pm - Like - 1 Vincent Pierins Buying your system 88 was one of my best ideas ever....it sounds incredible, is perfectly stable, great controller and the service pre- and postbuying is top notch...and for a very democratic price. Roger Arrick, you still rule in MU-world... January 19 at 4:39pm - Edited - Unlike - 5 Roger Arrick Power systems are a big issue. This is why I have this big red notice on my power page: https://www.synthesizers.com/power.html January 19 at 4:43pm - Like - 2 - Remove Preview Rock Wehrmann I imagine this has been asked and answered, but do you think the Moog modular stuff is only available as prepackaged systems to do an end run around Mike Bucki and Musonics? This would probably mean that individual modules wouldn't be available. Any thoughts? January 19 at 4:43pm - Like Roger Arrick The preconfigured systems offered by Moog are mostly full, and there's no listing on their website about individual modules, cabinets, or power systems. Most individual modules they would sell would be for existing systems, bu there's only about 200 of them in the world. The Moog modular power system is way different than any modern MU system which mostly use the synthesizers.com standard. So, they would need to sell cabinets and power systems too, and deal with lots of folks who are trying to diy that. This can turn into a big mess pretty quick. And it can quickly turn into clones at a fraction of the price. My products aren't even clones (Except the Q960 stuff), and they are 1/5 the price. So, it's hard to tell how far they want this to go. Really, 99% of staying in business is not engineering, it's getting all the other details right - pricing, manufacturing, vendors, income tax, inventory management, employee issues, order processing, shipping, the list goes on and on. January 19 at 4:50pm - Like - 8 - Remove Preview Ritchie DeCarlo Correct.... MOOG has no intention of selling individual modules... January 19 at 4:53pm - Like Rock Wehrmann I should've phrased the post better. I agree that gearing up for modular sales would be a monumental task. I can also see why it might be supremely tempting for Moog, for image reasons alone. My question (which, again, I shoulda asked better) is, do we know or think that any kind of arrangement had to made with Musonics? As far as I know, Mike still owns the intellectual rights to Moog modules. January 19 at 4:56pm - Like - 1 Marc Doty There aren't rights to modules. All intellectual rights died with the original company when the last vestiges of the company died in 1993. To own the rights to a product, you have to have patents or at least manufacture it as a product. Which is undoubtedly the motivation for these systems. January 19 at 5:21pm - Unlike - 5 Allen Wentz I have rarely seen such excitement for something nobody (ok, maybe the .00001%) will buy. (Probably need a couple more zeros) January 19 at 5:45pm - Like - 4 Brian Sherick Going to NAMM.....will check it out.... January 19 at 5:47pm - Like John Clancy Funny, my first somewhat ironic thought was that they are entering an existing, mature market, as a newbie...my second thought was, I wonder if they are sticking Moog labels on Synthesizer.com product. More free marketing for the product niche, no idea how to do an apples to apples comparison...their system 22 is $22k, so what does that equate to system wise from Roger? I dunno....Roger has the magic pricing spreadsheet making app, lets you build as you go...like I said, seems like Roger's business model is actually more mature than Moog's. But will Moog be able to sell to perhaps a University or other customer based on the name...perhaps more important, do the Moog's sound any different? I like that their video used no effects, the low end is often robbed by echo / reverb. Virtual Analog Synth � Element | Waves Element, the first ever synthesizer from Waves, is powered by Virtual Voltage technology and delivers the... waves.com January 19 at 6:03pm - Like - Remove Preview Jeff Wright Does the new Moog have a whammy bar option? No? I'll pass.... January 19 at 6:06pm - Unlike - 5 Brad Ashwell Forget where i read it....moog site, synthtopia, etc... But they hype up the cabinet as part of the sound for these. Maybe a dumb question but is that even true? Does the cabinet have any effect on the sound? Always thought it was just aesthetic. January 19 at 6:34pm - Like Allan Gelbard I'm just hoping that they decide to sell individual modules. I've been looking for a 904b and 904c since 1979. January 19 at 6:35pm - Like - 1 Jareth Lackey Would like to have a moog modular but I am a Roger Arrick supporter when it comes to modular gear. I love vintage moogs but not a huge fan of the new moog music. January 19 at 6:43pm - Like - 6 Michael Firman As I mentioned above, in so many words, this is a very niche market. It's nice that they are doing it, but it's not really for me. It's as if someone decided to make a short run of brand new 1938 Hudson Terraplane Coupes. Some people have been waiting their whole lives to own one, regardless of the cost. Other folks, even those who are really into Hudson Terraplane Coupes, would rather buy a more affordable modern car that can be used in a normal context. January 19 at 7:44pm - Like - 3 Clay Grossman you cant get the footage on the OSC's January 19 at 8:03pm - Like Michael Maddox Dotcom all the way! I have little desire to have a boutique synth built the "old way;" I just want the SOUND. January 19 at 8:20pm - Like - 1 Eric Larsen Seems like a good sign of a rising tide. January 19 at 8:52pm - Like - 1 Zon Pyles I've owned a Moog 15 and a 55 and a couple of different Dotcom systems. A Moog 15 is a wonderful thing but not for $10,000. I didn't even check their price for a 55 after seeing that price. I far prefer the Synthesizers.com modular system. No contest, in my nearly 40 years of experience with most modulars available through the years. Bob and Roger both have made beautiful instruments but for the money - and the quality and the sound - Roger's synthesizer is the evolved version of Bob's pioneering instrument. January 19 at 9:03pm - Like - 12 - Remove Preview Erik Krieger Will it lose tune when the room temp changes? I've always admired the Moog modular (grew up with Switched on Bach - literally wore the album out). I believe the Dotcom is a reasonable evolution of Mr. Moog's concept. Some day I'd love to have one of each to compare them. January 19 at 9:31pm - Like - 1 Tear O'Sync Having had the pleasure of spending time with a Moog modular, I have t say, my conclusion is that .com stuff is superior in damn near every way. January 19 at 10:16pm - Like - 1 Allen Wentz and the apparent winner in the big Moog modular announcement is.. drum roll.. Synthesizers.com. This should bring a smile to the marketing folks in Asheville. And congrats to Roger, a lovely bloke. January 19 at 10:33pm - Like - 1 Allen Wentz On the other hand, you will have to pry my Sub 37 from my cold, dead hands. January 19 at 10:35pm - Like Roger Arrick This thread has 158 posts, which is more than triple the posts on the Moog group, and that group is much bigger. Weird. January 19 at 10:41pm - Like - 11 John Williams Hey, that's more posts than all the 55s and 35s they plan to sell (combined) and more than the model 15s they have planned. January 19 at 10:44pm - Like Roger Arrick If the system inquiries in my inbox today are any judge of the effects, I'll take it! January 19 at 10:47pm - Edited - Like - 12 Daniel Canada Heh, good thing I got my latest order in before the influx-_- January 19 at 10:50pm - Like - 1 John Clancy I just accidentally advertised your product in a discussion thread that included Herbert Deutsch. January 19 at 10:56pm - Like Paul Clark I agree with Ritchie DeCarlo. I decided to get into modular synthesizers last year and was torn between Eurorack and the larger format modules. while researching I was amazed to learn Moog had no rack mountable modules. January 19 at 11:06pm - Like Paul Clark Btw thanks for the add Roger. January 19 at 11:06pm - Like Daniel Canada Watching that Moog video, the way they're talking, you'd think that up until this moment, modulars had disappeared off the face of the earth until the valiant Moog FINALLY resurrected them... January 19 at 11:16pm - Like - 7 DAvid Edward Schnell Well, I think you are a fool for sitting through the whole thing, unless you have a plan, of sorts. January 19 at 11:17pm - Like - 1 Daniel Canada Heh, yup, I'd go along with that:) January 19 at 11:17pm - Like Matt Baxley I enjoyed the presentation very much. Very happy that Moog is doing this. It's about time. I knew it would be ridiculously out of my price range if they ever did, just like all their other products. I'll stick with Synthesizers.com I think this is good for the modular world in general. Yesterday at 12:40am - Like - 1 - Remove Preview Angelo Metz Sold at your nearest Guitar Center� http://www.guitarcenter.com/Moog,Keyboards---MIDI.gc... Moog Keyboards & MIDI | Guitar Center Enjoy the lowest prices and best selection of Moog Keyboards & MIDI at Guitar Center. Most orders are... guitarcenter.com Yesterday at 1:14am - Like - Remove Preview Roberto Raineri-Seith ...and maybe there is THT inside?? No, seriously, i think i will order a System 15 to complement with my DotCom, Mos-Lab and Synth-Werk stuff... Yesterday at 2:30am - Like - 3 Mark Sompel It's about 10x the price of dotcom. Go buy a dotcom, and a house to put it in. Yesterday at 3:58am - Like - 1 Tony Newnham depends on price - I'd like one,but there are other things far higher on the current muical wish list! Yesterday at 6:17am - Like Gregory Clark I've got the MU modular I've always wanted. And for a small fraction of what the new Moog costs. Initially it was all Dotcom, but has morphed and includes many other builders modules now. It is still about 50% Roger's product. (A new or original Moog would not give me the sound and flexibility I want in a modular now.) Yesterday at 7:19am - Like - 1 Allan Gelbard FYI I have received a response from Moog saying they will not sell single modules, only complete systems. Yesterday at 10:37am - Like Roger Arrick I wonder what the lead time of the Moog systems are? Someone on another group said they heard 18 mo. Yesterday at 10:43am - Like Matt Baxley holy moly. What kind of lead times did Moog have back in the day? Yesterday at 10:49am - Like Robert Saint John With the price and so few being made, the real impact is the greater interest it sparks for the industry as a whole. Specific example: me! After spending a good part of last night looking it all over and daydreaming, I went to be thinking, "Well, I can still save up for a Voyager." Woke up this morning, and people are still talking about it. Saw a reference (in the comments on Wired's coverage?) to synthesizers.com, and spent the morning combing over the site. And then I realized: "I'm Roger's future customer." I'm *really* new to all this, a prodigal enthusiast. Little more than a DX7 was in my reach back in the day, and obviously I could never get the sound I really wanted out of where the industry went. But now... I am so excited! Yesterday at 11:35am - Unlike - 6 Mikel Zwissler Join us... You won't regret it. Yesterday at 11:46am - Like - 2 Ruben Dario Peralta They say up to a year and a half Yesterday at 11:55am - Like Glenn Lawhon So Much Love for the Company that Influenced most of the synth guys out there, but what do I know I can't even afford a synthezier.com!!hahaha... Yesterday at 12:02pm - Unlike - 1 Mikel Zwissler Cue the "You can, for the price of a cup of coffee per day!" infomercial. Check out the entry system. http://synthesizers.com/system-entry2.html Entry System Plan #2 - Analog Modular Synthesizers for Electronic Music by... Yesterday at 12:12pm - Like - 4 - Remove Preview Glenn Lawhon Thanks Mikel I will have to look into it! Yesterday at 12:14pm - Like - 1 Tom Luth Having learned on the Moogs models 15, 12 and 55, plus the E-mu modular back in '73-75, I do have a place in my heart for these classic synths. But the reality today is there are better systems, for much less. Having looked at numerous systems, and listened to them, there is no question, I plan on DotCom as my core system, with perhaps a few boutique modules. I am glad Moog is back in the game for all the reasons noted, mostly bringing attention back to the modular synths, but I truly do not see them as an option for my tastes or budget. Even if Donald Trump offered to buy me a system, I would prefer the DotCom over the Moog. Yesterday at 12:38pm - Like - 2 Daniel Canada I'm almost at the end of my entry system program, totally recommendable. Roger and Margo make it all dead simple... Yesterday at 12:42pm - Like - 2 Roger Arrick Once you patch a modular without having to convert switch-triggers, and where modules have onboard mixers and reversable attenuators, you'll never go back. Yesterday at 1:09pm - Edited - Like - 5 Daniel Canada Yup, loving the reversible attenuators on my Q107z Yesterday at 1:16pm - Like - 1 Michael Firman Roger, this is something that your system shares with the Serge (another of my systems). You are so correct about the reversible attenuators. Module on-board mixing is absolutely fantastic, saves so much real estate. Does the "new" Moog modular still have switch-triggers? If so, that is a real mistake. Their keyboards have intelligently abandon that interface. Yesterday at 1:21pm - Like - 1 John Havermans Looking at the pics they indeed have the Strigs. Yesterday at 1:28pm - Like Roger Arrick I went through this whole process in the 90s of whether to make exact replicas of Moog modules or fix some stuff. I decided to abandon switch triggers, the asymmetrical power system, 1/2-size modules, C-frames; and increase signal levels, and put reversable attens all over, among other things. I basically just kept the front panel size and the knob style. You can read about some of this on my FAQ. Yesterday at 2:54pm - Edited - Like - 14 John Havermans A good and wise decision Roger Arrick. Yesterday at 3:10pm - Like - 1 Billy Jay Stein Will I be able to interface the new moogs with my current dotcom system? Yesterday at 3:14pm - Like Roger Arrick Externally, the pitch and audio SHOULD patch between the 2 freely. The moog has a different power system so you can not swap modules between cabinets - you can read about that in my FAQ. The moog uses switch-trigger instead of gates. You can read more about that at: https://www.Synthesizers.com/gates.html Yesterday at 3:17pm - Like Billy Jay Stein COOL! Yesterday at 3:25pm - Like Gregory Clark Actually, all this from Moog has done to me is to impel me to make a simple portable system out of one of my cabinets ALA the P15. Yesterday at 4:30pm - Like - 1 Mikel Zwissler totally. Yesterday at 4:44pm - Like Brian Sherick This is all making me want to order my studio 88....... Yesterday at 4:45pm - Unlike - 3 Derrick Simpson Roger Arrick, I know you must be busy but I have a quick question:If I use one 37 note and one 61 note keyboard, along with a dual wheel controller and a whammy controller, all mounted as a single console controller, would I use the one Q137 power supply or would I need one supply per keyboard? Yesterday at 6:17pm - Like Roger Arrick If you have a system with an internal power supply like the QPS1, then you can power all the controllers with QIC cables: https://www.synthesizers.com/power.html Yesterday at 6:19pm - Like - Remove Preview Derrick Simpson Wow.....So my dream of a base system composed of a Rack 24 system and dual keyboards would only require my building the cabinetry and all would be powered by the supply of the rack 24? Yesterday at 6:22pm - Like Roger Arrick correct-umus Yesterday at 6:25pm - Like Airyc Creiner I really can't see why they want 8 grand for 2 960s and a few associated modules in a cabinet. Yesterday at 6:30pm - Like - 2 Derrick Simpson The Moog notice in my inbox this morning prompted me to do some more research at your site. If I have it right, the base system I want would be a system 24 rack with standard modules, one 37 note keyboard with whammy controller, one 61 note keyboard with dual wheel controller....all powered by the supply of the rack 24. this would allow me to purchase 3 additional rack frames and populate with additional modules completing the system over time as I study the modules and determine need....but the base system would then only be around $4200.00...............!? Yesterday at 6:33pm - Like - 5 Roger Arrick Derrick, you can use our spreadsheet on the price page, or SynthInvent to calculate this, or just fill out the quote form and we'll send you a formal quotation with all the details including shipping and lead time. The Quote form provides a total in real time. https://www.synthesizers.com/quote.html Yesterday at 6:36pm - Like Derrick Simpson Going there now. Yesterday at 6:40pm - Like Derrick Simpson The quote system was just completed....took a while to load. the page.....a good sign for sure that your site is busy....Thanks Roger Arrick Yesterday at 6:50pm - Like John Clancy Well, looks like Roger is hiring. Yesterday at 6:57pm - Like Jeff Burgener Well to comorate the latest Moog announcement, I am ordering more modules from Roger. Yesterday at 7:10pm - Unlike - 4 Brian Sherick Just noticed the builds on the new Moog modulars.....only 55 and 35 of the System 55 and 35 respectively will be made..... prices high!!! Yesterday at 7:14pm - Like Daniel Canada Given they're talking an 18 month lead time, does anyone know what this means exactly? ie does that mean it'll take 18 months before any ofthem are fnished, orthey'll do a hard out period of say 12 months hand producing the full amount of boards and modules and then assemble the lot and every one will star seeing their units rount the 18 month period? I wonder if they have a few complete systems floating around already for early orders... Yesterday at 7:27pm - Like Derrick Simpson Based on my understanding, there are NO systems prebuilt...only the systems for the show.....18 months from time of order to delivery to your door...each unit hand-built and built to order.....sadly. Yesterday at 7:31pm - Like Daniel Canada I'm assuming it's not gonna be like one built every 18 months though, that'd be nuts. (not that I"m buying one so it's not really any of my business...) Yesterday at 7:38pm - Like Derrick Simpson Its like a group build....just as was my Voyager XL. The orders are taken up to a cutoff point and multiple orders are built. Those placing an order after the cutoff point go into the next order build...if there is one...time is also allowed for burnin at about 48 hours. I picked up my unit from the factory after a custom build of about 25 units...took about a month to build and burnin before pickup. Yesterday at 7:46pm - Like Daniel Canada Ahh, I thought it might be something like that, makes sense. Still though, I thought the 12 months on my entry system was tough, 18 months, damn, son! Yesterday at 7:48pm - Like Derrick Simpson I weighted 36 months on my Pete Cornish pedalboard.....and that was a rush. Yesterday at 7:50pm - Like Daniel Canada Deez nutz! Yesterday at 8:39pm - Like - 1 Derrick Simpson Got in line behind one of David Gilmour projects, and just in front of Julian cope....just bad luck I guess. Yesterday at 8:43pm - Like - 1 Mark Sompel 21 hrs - Like Andy Wilson Won't be as good as a Dotcom ...he he 18 hrs - Like - 1 Daniel Canada Heh, I'll probably never afford one of the new Moog modulars, but I can play my synthesizers.com right now (and in fact have just turned it off to do some more work on the wiki page -_-) 17 hrs - Edited - Like - 2 Derrick Simpson Well, Daniel Canada, when I think of what I paid for my VoyagerXL and Memory-Moog, the cost of the Synthesizers.com instrument I want to configure is very reasonable. I knew I would eventually buy a system from Roger, but thought it would be much later as I thought the cost would be much more than I now understand. Roger has given me a preliminary quote via the website system quoter and it is 1/2 of what I thought it would be.....I need to step up my game and bank account very soon. 9 hrs - Like - 2 - Remove Preview Mikel Zwissler Derrick- I know it feels like you've got to do it all in one shot, but I have to say, there's a kick to adding new modules to a system. If you've got the XL, get a cab, ps, and whatever modules you can afford right now. 9 hrs - Like - 2 Daniel Canada Yup, THe module a month thing has been great for me because it's given me time to get my head around the latest module fora few weeks before the next one arrives. 8 hrs - Like - 2 Jon Rowell I think your gear is a better deal. You have the quality, sound, and a much better price. 8 hrs - Like - 1 Derrick Simpson Thanks for the encouragement guys......I think I will have the controller configured and start with a Rack 24 for now, then expand to an additional Rack 24 Cabinet and add modules a few at a time. I see this as a wonderful, Thoughtful way to expand...now just the small matter of money. 8 hrs - Like - 2 Daniel Canada Sweet, that Rack 24 system looks killer. Even a couple of empty slots for good measure. 8 hrs - Like - 1